Timing Belt Replacement

"UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy" (smithtaylorm) 01/23/2018 at 11:37 • Filed to: None

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Discussion after the jump.

This weekend, we got in my girlfriends car and only got about 50 feet before it stalled. Checked fuel, spark, battery etc. and everything was good. Got it towed, turned out the timing belt lost some teeth. They don’t know whether the engine was impacted due to the slow speed (under 5 mph), but said they’d need to change the belt out before going further. While she could get a new car, this is a 10 year old car that needs some other odds and ends but really she just needs this car to get her 3 more months to graduation. Best case is the belts replaced and he engine is okay; worst is that it needs rebuilt. That would cost more than the car is worth.

I figured that I’ve got a free weekend, a 6 pack, tools, and know how from working at a shop in high school and fixing various parts on my own cars throughout the years. I know the risk of making sure timing is correct, but at this point we’ve got nothing to lose. Should I go for it? If it’s still damaged then we know for sure, or we get a working car again.

For the record, her car is a 2008 Kia Rio. My car is the lead photo.

crowmolly > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 11:48

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Should I go for it?

If parts are not expensive, yeah. It was slow engine speed and the belt lost teeth, it wasn’t a complete failure. I believe it is an interference engine though.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 11:49

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FOST clickbait!!!!

Urambo Tauro > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 11:51

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A timing belt kit is like what, $50? If it’s not a total nightmare to get to, I’d say go for it! Throw a belt on there, and cross your fingers that there’s not a bent valve or something.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 11:54

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I was going to say that there’s no timing belt on the FoST.

I’ve never done a belt myself, but considered it terrifying because everything needs to be in the correct position after the swap. If you’re talented and have the right documentation, it’s worth trying.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 11:54

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The Googles says that car does have an interference motor. I agree with others: if the parts are cheap, you may as well go for it.

Also those wheels look great on that FoST.

Takuro Spirit > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/23/2018 at 11:59

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I always refer to the Gates timing belt guide:

https://www.gates.com/resources/resources-library/catalogs/timing-belt-replacement-interval-guide

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > crowmolly 01/23/2018 at 12:00

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It is an interference. A belt is $30/40

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Urambo Tauro 01/23/2018 at 12:01

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Basically the thought. I can pick one up $30-50

Nothing > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:01

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I’d go for it. Seems worst case you’re out your time and a little bit of $.

I’ve had the same thing happen to me. My CRX Si broke a timing belt as I was pulling away from a light. I had no damage.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 01/23/2018 at 12:02

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Also if it failed on an 8 month old car I’d take it straight to the dealer and give them hell for that, lol.

But yeah, everything has to be in the correct place, worsr case the engine was okay and I fuck it by having it timed wrong. But then it puts us back to where we are at now for sure, I guess.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:03

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Beware that even on relatively simple modern cars, timing belts can be a pain to replace. On my renault you have to undo the drivers side engine mount and lift the engine just to get access. I caved and paid to have it done because it was extremely fiddly without a lift and high risk if I got it wrong.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/23/2018 at 12:04

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Belts $30-40 and I’m going to replace other things that I can while I’m in there.

I got the wheels because there were only 3 KB’s within 200 miles of me and it had them. It’s an ST1 besides those though. I wanted the snowflakes at first but these have grown on me and when it’s all clean they look great.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:04

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Likely worse case, you may have a bent valve that will not allow compression after you replace the belt. I’m that case you could install a replacment loaded head. Rockauto has them for $500-$600. The issue would be you’d have already replaced the timing belt and would need to remove it to replace the head. I believe there is a way you can test compression without the timing being set. You’d just be able to check the cylinders that are closed. I’m not familiar with the process, but should be able to do some testing before you throw money at a timing belt and parts. I would think if you can pressurize the cylinder through the spark plug hole, you should be able to see if it will hold pressure when the valves are closed. I would think you can pull the valve cover, rotate the camshaft till both valves are closed, put pressure in the cylinder and see if it holds, 100psi or so should tell you if you’re okay. If a valve is bent, it won’t hold pressure and will likely leak out through the valve seats in the head. If you find a bent valve, you can either replace the single valve, or replace the head.

I guess that being said, you can replace the timing set and tensioner, then compression test each cylinder. After that, if it has good compression, you’re all set, but if one is bad, you will probably need to replace those valves in that cylinder. The valves are about $10 a piece in rockauto as well. Probably the least expensive option.

You can also grab a cheapo borescope and look inside each cylinder to see if the piston has marks from an impact. That could also tell you how bad things might be.

crowmolly > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:05

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Grip it and rip it

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:05

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Also, if it just lost a couple teeth, it may not have been out of timing bad enough to have contact between valves and pistons, so you may be good to go.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:07

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Holy cow, timing kits are cheap for these things, under $50, so yeah, go for it. But probably scope the cylinders first.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 01/23/2018 at 12:07

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Thanks for the info. I wanted to test the compression this weekend but didn’t have time. I’m doing more research tonight as well so I’ll look for that

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:09

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Yeah, the timing kits are less than $50 so not much risk there, but you could drop a camera in the cylinders to see if the pistons show any signs of valve contact. If not, then you should be good. Since the belt didn’t snap, they may not have contacted each other.

SmugAardvark > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:17

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Yes, as some others have speculated, that is an interference motor. If you have the tools and know-how, swap the belt and test compression.

CalzoneGolem > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:24

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I think you already know the answer to this. Slap a new belt on and hope for the best.

LOREM IPSUM > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 12:42

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Fwiw, the timing belt of our Catera snapped during a cold start, however there was luckily no engine damage. You might just be ok. Worth a shot anyway.

tromoly > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 14:20

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Done two timing belts (Focus 4-cylinder, Saab v6) and they aren’t bad at all, follow a guide and keep things organized and you’re fine. Also buy the proper timing lock kits, they are worth it.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 18:36

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Ehh setting the timing isnt that hard if you follow some guides with pictures on most cars. Just make sure to mark things properly when taking them off.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/23/2018 at 18:46

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That’s what I was thinking. Organization, documentation, pictures. Still unknown if valves/compression is good but that can be tested too.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 18:54

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Well yeah, I would recommend paying the shop to check that if possible. Idk if they can confirm it without taking everything apart or not. With that car being an interference motor, it seems riskier. I know with my Miata I did actually set the timing wrong and have to redo the whole damn thing but its noninterference so all that happened is it ran REALLY shitty. I sure learned a lot about doing a timing job by doing it all twice, thank god for cordless impacts!

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/23/2018 at 19:12

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Yeah I was thinking about replacing it and having the shop check before I start it again

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/23/2018 at 19:58

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Ehh I would want them to check before even going through all of the replacing. I wouldnt be so concerned about starting up after the replacement. If the belt is on there right and timing is right then you cant make it worse. If its all correct and shit is “off” then you already know the hell to fix it I imagine. But that seems like a big waste of time and risk to not have that checked first.

UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/23/2018 at 21:06

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They said they can’t check it until they replace the belt. Which isn’t really true. But whatever. They’re in business to make money. Hence why I’m where I am. They want $600-700 for that.

Bun > UnderSTeerEnthusiast - Triumph Fanboy 01/24/2018 at 23:07

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Why not check compression first. Set to tdc apply a leak down compression tester see if the valvels leak. Move to the nex cylinder. Not hard to do but will let ya know if the vehicle is in need of a just a belt kit or needs head work.